Question about weapon Requirements - Guild Wars Forums

Cairne Swiftblade · Jan 19, 2006, 11:55 AM // 11:55

Could someone please help me to understand weapon req. vs attribute rank? My original belief was that if you met or exceeded the req. value on a weapon you could do max. damage. I recently saw a thread where someone made the statement "you have to have 12 in an attribute to get max. damage." This was not contradicted by anyone else in the thread.

If that statement is correct, and my attribute rank is 12, that would mean that 2 swords which have identicle mods but different reqs. under 12 (ie. 8 and 11) would perform the same for me, right?

But, if my last statement is accurate, why is there such a price fluctuation between identicle items with only different reqs? I have seen PC's that say: PC X sword of X Req 11 where the response is "Oh, nice sword, 80k....would be over 100k if the req. was lower."

Does the value have absolutely nothing to do with usability, just the number 8instead of 11?

Thanks for your help.

Rajamic · Jan 19, 2006, 12:48 PM // 12:48

*sigh* I'll explain it again. Though it's clearly spelled out in the combat mathematics guide on this site.

A weapon has a damage range and a requirement. If your attribute meets the requirement, the game uses the damage range listed on that weapon. If you do not meet the requirement, it is treated as a begginer version of that weapon. So for example, the pre-order Ithas Bow has a 13-25 (Req. 10 Marksmanship). If you have 10 or higher in Marksmanship, the game uses the 13-25 damage range to select a random value for damage. If you are 9 or below, the game uses starter bow stats, which are something like 4-7.

Then, there is a second step. If this is not a mage weapon, the higher your attribute, the more damage you do. If it is a mage weapon, your experience level is used instead of any attribute level. This is completely independant of the requirement on the weapon. For simplicity sake, we as players consider 60 Armor, 12 in an attribute, and in the case of mage weapons level 20, to be "Standard". This is where the idea of needing 12 in an attribute to do full damage comes from.

In actuality in the game itself, armor level and Attribute level work on parallel sliding scales where essentially every 5 armor counters 1 attribute level. So if you are attacking someone with only 30 AL, you will be doing 100% damage at only attribute level 6. This is where mage weapons show their weakness, as PC armor levels can go past 60 for most classes, weapon attributes can go past 12, but mage weapons rely on experience level for this, which cannot go past the "standard" 20.

Cairne Swiftblade · Jan 19, 2006, 01:34 PM // 13:34

So then, if I understand correctly, the difference is in higher crit out put with a req. 8 sword instead of a req. 11 sword? I had seen the damage explanation on this site, but I was unclear on the effect of having a higher Rank than the weapon requirement.

Raptox · Jan 19, 2006, 03:52 PM // 15:52

This thread is pretty good:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=104524

Screenshots and everything.

Bottom line: Yeah, you do more damage the higher your weapon mastery is, but it has nothing to do with how much you exceed your weapon requirement. Iif you've got 12 in your weapon mastery, a Req7 and a Req12 weapon which are otherwise identical are gonna do the same damage.

Loviatar · Jan 19, 2006, 05:21 PM // 17:21

official answer

Quote:

Weapon requirement works as follows:

1. If you meet or exceed the requirement, you will deal damage within the range listed.

2. If you do not meet the requirement, you will deal damage within a range not specified (though very similar to a 'starter' weapon).

Also note that your attribute has a passive effect on damage and the likelihood of critical hits (and thus more damage) independent of the weapon requirement. The requirement sets the 'base' damage range the game uses, which is then modified by the passive effect to reach the final damage actually dealt.

As for the difference between swords and axes ... a max damage sword and a max damage axe should, over time, deal roughly the same average damage. Ignoring criticals and other modifying variables, a max damage sword has an average damage of 18.5, while a max damage axe averages 17 (using simple math, not sure if those figures are 100% correct within the game engine). The axe has a larger variation, and thus an axe deals more damage on a critical hit. As you correctly pointed out, though, one of the biggest differences is in the skills available and the effects of those skills.

Think about this, though ... we know that a higher attribute score makes criticals hits more likely. So when comparing damage output between an axe and a sword, at low attribute values the difference is probably negligable. But at higher values the axe will probably be dealing more damage because of the more frequent critical hits. Also, an axe works better with Wild Blow than a sword does (because of the higher critical on an axe).

There's a lot to think about when it comes to deciding which weapon to use .
__________________
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Guild Wars Community Relations
NCsoft Europe

eom · Jan 20, 2006, 02:02 AM // 02:02

as the above posters have already answered, it doesn't matter how far ahead of the req level you are.
what's confusing you are the widely differing prices, which can be explained by a couple things.
first of all, remember we're talking worthless virtual money of which some players have a ton --- there is no barrier to overpaying for some detail.
secondly, it becomes kind of circular as the lower req items are perceived to be more valuable they will be driven up by traders and speculators.
but most importantly, it is better to have a lower req item because it gives you greater flexibilty in your build --- you aren't forced to buy a particular attribute up just to use the weapon in question, so you can pile on some other stat.

Cairne Swiftblade · Jan 20, 2006, 01:22 PM // 13:22

But even if I lower my attribute to the weapons requirement, I am still sacrificing Critical Damage potential, correct?

darkMishkin · Jan 20, 2006, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cairne Swiftblade

But even if I lower my attribute to the weapons requirement, I am still sacrificing Critical Damage potential, correct?

yes

.

eom · Jan 21, 2006, 01:02 AM // 01:02

well, you will always be sacrificing crits as well as damage when you lower your attribute lvl.
I wasn't aware that this had any relationship w/the weapon req, though.

boxterduke · Aug 28, 2006, 08:34 PM // 20:34

I just saw this thread.
So to recap,

if you meet the weapons req then a lower weapon req is not going be doing more damage than a high req weapon (keep in mind that you are meeting the weapon req in both cases)

So the only reason to have higher attribute points than the weapon req to get critical hits??

Caelus The Fallen · Aug 28, 2006, 08:55 PM // 20:55

No, weapon attribute level is also factored in to armour calculations.

dmg * 2 ^ ((stike_level - armour) / 40 )

strike_level is 3 * [character]level for most things, but for weapons its 5 * weapon_attribute (although levels above 12 are only worth 3).
Thats why people say you need 12 to do stated damage 5*12 = 60 and therefore off-sets caster armour level. 16 weapon mastery would off-set 72 armour, or effectively give you more damage than stated against foes with less than 72 armour.

Zakarr · Aug 28, 2006, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Is there some kind of percentage number for critical hits which increases or decreases when you are raising or lowering mastery attribute?

Fungus Amongus · Aug 29, 2006, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cairne Swiftblade

I recently saw a thread where someone made the statement "you have to have 12 in an attribute to get max. damage."

You need to have level 12 to do 100% damage of your weapon, not max damage.

See this thread written by Ensign:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...nics-id674.php

As a matter of fact, I think I am going to read it again.

Jan 19, 2006, 11:55 AM // 11:55	#1
Cairne Swiftblade Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Jan 2006 Profession: W/Me	Question about weapon Requirements Could someone please help me to understand weapon req. vs attribute rank? My original belief was that if you met or exceeded the req. value on a weapon you could do max. damage. I recently saw a thread where someone made the statement "you have to have 12 in an attribute to get max. damage." This was not contradicted by anyone else in the thread. If that statement is correct, and my attribute rank is 12, that would mean that 2 swords which have identicle mods but different reqs. under 12 (ie. 8 and 11) would perform the same for me, right? But, if my last statement is accurate, why is there such a price fluctuation between identicle items with only different reqs? I have seen PC's that say: PC X sword of X Req 11 where the response is "Oh, nice sword, 80k....would be over 100k if the req. was lower." Does the value have absolutely nothing to do with usability, just the number 8instead of 11? Thanks for your help.

Jan 19, 2006, 12:48 PM // 12:48	#2
Rajamic Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: May 2005 Location: IA Guild: Chronicles of Heroes [CoH] Profession: R/Me	sigh I'll explain it again. Though it's clearly spelled out in the combat mathematics guide on this site. A weapon has a damage range and a requirement. If your attribute meets the requirement, the game uses the damage range listed on that weapon. If you do not meet the requirement, it is treated as a begginer version of that weapon. So for example, the pre-order Ithas Bow has a 13-25 (Req. 10 Marksmanship). If you have 10 or higher in Marksmanship, the game uses the 13-25 damage range to select a random value for damage. If you are 9 or below, the game uses starter bow stats, which are something like 4-7. Then, there is a second step. If this is not a mage weapon, the higher your attribute, the more damage you do. If it is a mage weapon, your experience level is used instead of any attribute level. This is *completely independant* of the requirement on the weapon. For simplicity sake, we as players consider 60 Armor, 12 in an attribute, and in the case of mage weapons level 20, to be "Standard". This is where the idea of needing 12 in an attribute to do full damage comes from. In actuality in the game itself, armor level and Attribute level work on parallel sliding scales where essentially every 5 armor counters 1 attribute level. So if you are attacking someone with only 30 AL, you will be doing 100% damage at only attribute level 6. This is where mage weapons show their weakness, as PC armor levels can go past 60 for most classes, weapon attributes can go past 12, but mage weapons rely on experience level for this, which cannot go past the "standard" 20. Last edited by Rajamic; Jan 19, 2006 at 12:50 PM // 12:50..

Jan 20, 2006, 01:22 PM // 13:22	#7
Cairne Swiftblade Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Jan 2006 Profession: W/Me	Lowering my attribute But even if I lower my attribute to the weapons requirement, I am still sacrificing Critical Damage potential, correct?

Aug 28, 2006, 08:55 PM // 20:55	#11
Caelus The Fallen Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2005 Location: Glasgow Guild: Voice of the Darkness Profession: E/Mo	No, weapon attribute level is also factored in to armour calculations. dmg * 2 ^ ((stike_level - armour) / 40 ) strike_level is 3 * [character]level for most things, but for weapons its 5 * weapon_attribute (although levels above 12 are only worth 3). Thats why people say you need 12 to do stated damage 512 = 60 and therefore off-sets caster armour level. 16 weapon mastery would off-set 72 armour, or effectively give you more damage than stated against foes with less than 72 armour. Last edited by Caelus The Fallen; Aug 28, 2006 at 08:58 PM // 20:58..*

Jan 19, 2006, 01:34 PM // 13:34	#3
Cairne Swiftblade Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Jan 2006 Profession: W/Me	So then, if I understand correctly, the difference is in higher crit out put with a req. 8 sword instead of a req. 11 sword? I had seen the damage explanation on this site, but I was unclear on the effect of having a higher Rank than the weapon requirement.

Jan 19, 2006, 03:52 PM // 15:52	#4
Raptox Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Huntington Station, NY Guild: Une Annee Sans Lumiere [UASL] Profession: E/Me	This thread is pretty good: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=104524 Screenshots and everything. Bottom line: Yeah, you do more damage the higher your weapon mastery is, but it has nothing to do with how much you exceed your weapon requirement. Iif you've got 12 in your weapon mastery, a Req7 and a Req12 weapon which are otherwise identical are gonna do the same damage.

Jan 20, 2006, 02:02 AM // 02:02	#6
eom Krytan Explorer Join Date: Nov 2005 Profession: W/N	as the above posters have already answered, it doesn't matter how far ahead of the req level you are. what's confusing you are the widely differing prices, which can be explained by a couple things. first of all, remember we're talking worthless virtual money of which some players have a ton --- there is no barrier to overpaying for some detail. secondly, it becomes kind of circular as the lower req items are perceived to be more valuable they will be driven up by traders and speculators. but most importantly, it is better to have a lower req item because it gives you greater flexibilty in your build --- you aren't forced to buy a particular attribute up just to use the weapon in question, so you can pile on some other stat.

Jan 21, 2006, 01:02 AM // 01:02	#9
eom Krytan Explorer Join Date: Nov 2005 Profession: W/N	well, you will always be sacrificing crits as well as damage when you lower your attribute lvl. I wasn't aware that this had any relationship w/the weapon req, though.

Aug 28, 2006, 08:34 PM // 20:34	#10
boxterduke Furnace Stoker Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Walking the ruins of Ascalon Guild: DVDF Profession: Me/	I just saw this thread. So to recap, if you meet the weapons req then a lower weapon req is not going be doing more damage than a high req weapon (keep in mind that you are meeting the weapon req in both cases) So the only reason to have higher attribute points than the weapon req to get critical hits??

Aug 28, 2006, 08:55 PM // 20:55	#12
Zakarr Jungle Guide Join Date: May 2005 Location: Finland	Is there some kind of percentage number for critical hits which increases or decreases when you are raising or lowering mastery attribute?